If he is not in the garage fixing challenging mechanical problems, he is writing automotive repair guides, buyers guides, and car and tools comparisons. At 40, it is 35psi, which is a difference of 8.9psi. However, if it is taken close to a fire flame or any electrical heating element, it disintegrates into toxic products. With R-12, 30 is 28.4psi and 40 is 36.9psi, for a difference of 8.5psi. For instance you can evacuate FRIGC FR-12 into a refrigerant recovery bottle that has R134a in it or visa versa. MB has specfic test parameters for performance, but you can always test at max load - doors open fan on highest speed.The oil overcharge looks like a parabolic curve. The typical scenario here is when the car owner buys an inexpensive retro-fit kit from the local auto parts store. . Read on for more information about using automotive r134a in a refrigerator and vice versa. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve I don't believe it is but I had a service guy tell me it needs to be done. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. I'm not sure. Can I just use an adapter and save $200? Bohica, I appreciate your help with this. The Main change in the system is the expansion valve. . At the time I thought nothing of it, but now I am thinking maybe that is contributing to the system not working as well as it could. In addition, R134a refrigerants are not only used in auto air conditioners, they can be used in freezers, aerosol cans, and refrigerators. What is a good differential? Once you have replaced the OEM condensor with a PF unit, you will need to make custom hoses to mate with your OEM system. It slowly gets warmer and warmer in the car, even at highway speeds. There are three different refrigerants officially sanctioned by the EPA for automotive usage: r-12, r-. The global warming potential measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. Instead, top off R12 with R134a refrigerant. The newer valves and switches will work with both refrigerants. I don't know where it is getting the switch off command, or why the vent temp drops steadily. Best for varieties of operating conditions: Its boiling point is -21.6 Celsius. and an evaporator core and expansion valve that are optimized for R134a . R134a was selected as a replacement refrigerant for R12 because R12 contains chlorine and has a major effect to ozone layer depletion. Recomanem consultar les pgines web de Xarxa Catal per veure tota la nostra oferta. Break out the new gauges and measure hi and lo at 1500rpm, and do the Merc FSM test to see how we're doing performance wise. The AC usually does not work at all. Make sure visiually that no large gaps exist that would allow the air to bypass the condensor on the way to the radiator.B. . When the temperature is reduced to-7C or below, the plants ability to cool the airdrops significantly. You can also check the Aux fan in your case. Quick View. Why wait for 200f on the engine coolant to start the fan? Very interesting! difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve why is miles raney not on homestead rescue June 21, 2022. manila mayor candidates 2022 Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? The symbol implies that R12 is a composite of carbon, chlorine, and fluorine. Before R12 was replaced with R134a in 1995, it was mostly used in trucks and cars. Given two identical vehicles, each with the same weighted amount of refrigerant, the vehicle with the R134a has the capability to remove more heat (measured in btus) from the vehicle than the same type of vehicle using the same amount of R12. What is needed? The sticker typically has a place to note the amount of refrigerant used, the type of oil and amount of oil, the technicians sign off or name and the date of the conversion. Just because the radiator does not boil people assume that the cooling system is ok. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. Temp switch works the aux fan. I'm curiousSo there is work to do, ie performance should be able to be improved. Whenever its exposed to the environment, it changes to a gas. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the fabricator and impossible for the serviceman. If there is no pusher fan, and you have the room, put one in. 42 (at best) w/ 134A in 2000 isuzu trooper. PDF COMPARISON OF Rl34a AND R12 REFRIGERANTS IN A VAPOUR - AIVC Are r12 and r134 fittings different? R12, on the other hand, has an ozone depletion potential of 1, implying that it can damage the ozone layer. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve BTW, I use a stick thermo in the vents and the laser on the condenser. It cycles on off in med (or low for that matter)Gotta tell ya. If you still find it difficult to use R134a in a home AC system, you can check out a comparison of R12 vs R134a fittings to know the refrigerant that best fits the AC system. A Lot of the fins are bent, especially at the top. Table 1 summarizes the technical characteristics of three potential R134a alternatives. I mean, really a lot. It's actually a reaction with chlorine in the mineral oil that may have been absorbed and leftover from the old R-12. The most common influences which effect the capability of R134a to perform well are the condenser, in some cases the the superheat setting of the expansion valve or the amount of R134a. Put a relay on the compressor clutch to the aux fan (I like that idea - makes a lot of sense)How does that sound? Operating Pressure/Temperature Differences The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. R-134A has a slightly lower pressure at evaporator temperatures (30-40 degrees), but R-134a also has a much higher pressure at condenser temperatures (120-150 degrees). Comparatively, larger R134a molecules should take more space, and a smaller amount might be required. In a comparison between R12 vs R134a vs R1234yf, R1234yf will pass as the best refrigerant. With the oil leaking out and being told all sorts of things about how these compressors don't have a sump etc, I wanted to be on the safe side. Though - the valve for a 1991 says R12 on it, and for a 1994, it says R-134a. bokoen1 hoi4 the great purge / meryl and maks dancing with the stars / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." Some say that a chemical reaction can harm the A/C very badly as R134a reacts with mineral oil in some way. This is due to many facts: R134a refrigerant is about 10% less efficient in moving heat than R12! Hopefully after you have read this entire page you will have enough information to determine which type of refrigerant is best for you. We mention using ester type refrigerant oil. Do a pre-inspection and then Evacuate (vacuum down) the system, the longer the evacuation the better but there is a point of diminishing return, 2-3 hours is generally very good. The first vehicle that used the R1234yf refrigerant was the 2013 Cadillac XTS. According to the thermodynamic characteristics, it is close to the R12 freon, however, it is 10-15% worse in terms of cooling capacity and is more fluid. Hence, the effect of R12 on global warming is up to 10,000 times higher than carbon dioxide. I would not do a 134a conversion without a PF condensor. I think the way to go here is1. Your old hoses of course will not fit. The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. That is for the compressor, drier, expansion valve and condenser. I don't think it has any air dams or seals, I'll check to make sure. Add to cart. R134a requires a different oil. Where would I get some basic info on it, I know nothing about it. Skin contact: If the R134a (liquid) comes in contact with your skin, it could cause a burn. Welcome to rxmechanic.com. This is a great space to write long text about your company and your services. R134a Refrigerant Recharge Kit with BPV31 Bullet Piercing Valve and R134a Quick Coupler, R134a/R-12/R-22 Freon Refrigerant Hose Can Tap Kit for A/C System - Easy to use. George Bray on Wed August 31, 2005 5:03 PM I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system. Most of all the differences gravitate to longevity, functionality, and safety. Besides, you have a greaseisel. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." And I lied about the compressor switches on this car - there are 2 switches on the drier - a temp and a pressure switch. Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? Its duty is to convert toxic gasses produced by the engine into A brake cleaner is a powerful solvent for cleaning dirt from the brakes and other car components. In short, NO! 2022 nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer, a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve, 2020 white paper of the church of pentecost, Chime Mobile Check Deposit Funds Availability, Why Does James Kill Donald In The Vanishing, nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer. R1234yf is more environmentally friendly and has a global warming potential of 4. The experimental values of C.O.P.H obtained with the R134a/ester charge were 20.2% El maig de 2016, un grup damics van crear un lloc web deOne Piece amb lobjectiu doferir la srie doblada en catal de forma gratuta i crear una comunitat que inclogus informaci, notcies i ms. In no particular order, here's what I've found out regarding answering the questions posed so far:Fonebone - It is definitely an R4 compressor (they left the c off the front and the p off the end, i.e. Make sure to wear safety gloves, goggles, and shoes when theres a possibility of exposure to the chemical (R134a). Can I Use Automotive r134a in a Refrigerator | An Expert Guide This is the part that controls the system pressures. A/C R12 to R134a Conversion Success | IH8MUD Forum -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." Accessories Pumps, Cooling Towers, Evap Condensers, etc, Components Valves, Motors, Condensers, Evaporators, etc, Duct Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Piping Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Control System Design, Installation & Practice, Pro's Forum: National Electrical Code (NEC), Pro's Forum: Calculations & Electrical Theory, Pro's Forum: Electrical Business & Marketing. Maybe a jerky locker.I cleaned the condensor with the off the shelf ac cleaner stuff from Home Depot that I used on my home evaporator. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. The current expansion valve is FF - 1/4 - C. Is it neccesary to replace this valve? The major reason for the replacement of R12 with R134a was to curb future greenhouse effects. Bottom line, R134a simply doesn't cool as well as R12. Look deep into the fins. At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. RULES for AOP - Owner Assistance and Contractors, Energy Efficiency and Building Performance Discussion NEW, Carnak Zone/Locked Areas - For Professional Member Only, How To Become a Pro and Rules For Pro Members, Pro Forum: Refrigerants and EPA regulations **NEW, Pro Forum: Residential Refrigeration and Appliances **NEW, Pro Forum: Equipment Recalls and Bulletins **NEW, Pro's Forum: Building Science Discussions, Educational Forums - Open for all in the industry, Welcome to HVAC-Talk's Educational Forums, How to Submit Links, Articles and Quiz Questions, Frequently Asked Questions About Submissions, Physics, Thermodynamics, Fluid Flow and Combustion, Educational, Training & Reference Information, Manufacturer's Technical Information Links, Electrical Theory, Circuits and Electronics, HVACR Equipment, Components & Accessories, Accessories Humidifiers, Air Cleaners, HRUs, Fans, Filters, etc. . With new R12 no longer being manufactured, the market price soared to $100/pound. Jun 19, 2007. That way I will have reduced the oil by about 1/3 (assuming the oil is mixed evenly through the system). The difference really shows up on the high side. Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. might be due to charge or different compressor and age. The oil is spread all over your system when it is at rest. The system has been previously converted to R-134a. Use strips of foam to couple the two heat exchangers if necessary.B. 1) Warm Air From Vents. By noting the ambient temperature you can look up what the preferred high side pressure should be. The larger fitting goes on the discharge port and the smaller fitting goes on the suction line or compressor inlet / suction port. 05-25-2017 02:14 AM. The higher the ambient temperature the higher the high side pressure. June 21, 2022 difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve . Bookmarks: Digg; del . Don't like the sound of custom parallel condensor. I'll put the relay on for that. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. Moreso, it had been banned. Related products. ing the expansion valve, a maximum opening superheat of 7F, and a standard factory air test superheat setting. Unfortunately, the R12 refrigerant doesnt always blow cold air. I'm thinking of jumping the temp switch and leaving the fan on to see how it does. The condensor airflow drops off as the fan clutch dies slowly. With the A/c off hi and lo were both at 105psi. Autor de l'entrada Per ; Data de l'entrada calexico west port of entry hours; 12 month libor rate 2021 a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve If you have a York, and it is equipped with service valves, you can check & adjust the oil level without discharging the system. Or is there always room for improvement, the more the merrier. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." R134a refrigerant is lighter than R12. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. R12 is heavier than R134a and has smaller molecules. It has already been clearly stated that R12 is a chemical that damages the earths ozone layer and shouldnt be released into the environment no matter the circumstance. Gnats & mosquitos will clog deep. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. The ozone depletion potential of a chemical is a factor that shows the level of degradation itll cause to the ozone layer that surrounds and secures the earth from harmful radiation. Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. Please enter a valid email address for yourself. These differences in the valve size can be attributed to the correlation of the cooling capacity with the enthalpy difference and the mass flow, which in . Lasers don't do well on vent temps, a stick thermometer is better in that application. It won't be optimal, though.On some/many valves, you can adjust them, but that might make matters worse unless you really know what you're doing (which I don't!).RegardsGeorge. When I compare parts, 93 uses one part number and 94 has a different part number. To bless the system the technician should attach a R134a sticker somewhere in the engine compartment to note the car is using R134a. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Bohica, You say the drop in performance is not linear with too much oil. The problem with using an approved alternative refrigerants other than R134a is that when the system is serviced it requires certain types of fittings, labels and dedicated equipment. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. Replace the drier with a drier that has a desiccant that is R134a compatible, use new R134a o-rings. We ALWAYS want to know the pressure readings! After the system has been tested out it should be checked for leaks. ThanksPaul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. The OEM spec is 2300 rpm @ 12.6v (engine stopped fully charged battery). If you're getting a R134a compressor, might as well finish the job - replace the receiver/dryer, flush everything else, and convert to R134a anyhow. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). maintain the A/C of older cars. With that said, I would source the TXV from another source such as NAPA just to avoid any problems. I just got some hi/lo side gauges so I'm going to take readings, if they are needed. Since 2010, all home AC systems manufactured use a refrigerant like R134a that has zero ozone depletion potential (ODP). Amazon.com: 134a Valve Is there a source of valves by, say, eaton number? For R12, its mineral oil. Big . After the initial charge the system is then tweeked : you determine the optimum amount of refrigerant to match your system by monitoring the a/c outlet vent temperature and the high side pressure as you add or remove refrigerant. ). You can use the R134a retrofit capacity chart for this purpose. This leads me to labor over every small decision. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. Using R134a requires that Polyolester (POE) lubricant must be used in the compressor. 30 deg is pretty coldSystems generally run between 40 and 43 deg. One thing at a time here, and slowly, the knee is not up to jumping around like I used to at the moment. He used thermostatic expansion valve and Capillary tube for analysis with R12. How dumb!I will jumper the aux fan and redo the test. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Back in that era, my business associates drove those things, brand new, and maybe I should take my Cadillac instead, no they wouldn't be caught dead in a Caddy, people of our esteem should be driving an MB. Ask Our Pros-Owner Assistance - NO DIY advice will be given. R-134a XV for R-134a use. of coiled cap tube on VCR system with R134a. By after changing just about everything, he got what was termed, satisfactory cooling. PaulJerky King -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. As per their results . The system has been previously converted to R-134a. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Use a strong surfactant like Simple Green or Zep Citrus, and soak the fins on the condensor. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. They examined the two configurations of capillary tubes i.e. It's not just the poor performance - the cooling just stops working after a while. Thus, when the system is running, condensing the CO2 is not a problem. R134a refrigerant is about 10% less efficient in moving heat than R12! A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. The expansion valve(Tx) is in the car at the inlet line to the evaporator with compressors you best get advice from an ac specialist shop as the differences could be the gas that it pumps some systems use R12 and others use R134a or later gas yes R1234yf Freon gas can be replaced by R134a; the newer systems were designed with this in mind so no, there will be no damage to the compressor but some time in . But, if your old compressor has lock-up or if your current expansion valve is not functional it would wise to replace the expansion valve with a valve designed for R134a. Most vehicles manufactured before 1993 have the R12 A/C system. This allows the refrigerant in the condenser to be void of oil particles. 2) Frost on the Vents. . To ensure the right charge, you must fill the new system with between 75 and 85% of the factory-set capacity for optimal cooling. B. look at the difference! Crap! R12 is used in several applications like low temperature, medium temperature, and high-temperature applications. had writing on the side that said R134a. R-12 expansion valves can be re-used, but will not be as efficient as R-134a specific ones because of the slightly different pressure specs of R-12 vs. R-134a. 1) Look Here at the available sizes of PF condensors.2) Go look at your vehicle's condensor & mounting. You can use this space to go into a little more detail about your company. Some 1993 and older R12 systems aren't as 'compatible' as you'd think to switch over. R134a vs. R12 - Griffiths Is there a graph? The whole trick is to sit there in those steam boxes and not perspire, it's vulgar to perspire when driving on public roads.If you want esteem, drive an MB, if you want comfort with 60*F interiors in a 125*F environment, get a Caddy. That switch should close @ 52c. I remember I had the wrong seals and it leaked some oil, so I put some more in.Bohica - I tested the pressures. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. You can buy bulk hose, and the proper fittings, then have them crimped off the vehicle.Be sure that no air bypasses the new condensor on the way to the radiator. Any advice appreciated. Your average garage that works on a/c on the side probably would not have this. Could that be screwing up the systems performance?Anyway, when I installed the system, the new TXV (is that short for expansion valve?) Statisicaly your friend was lucky. Compressor. Well, I'm not sure it is 'fine' - it doesn't cool very well in 95F weather. Different correction factors are applied to other refrigerants. Kommentare . don't know enough about the subject to explain the choices.However, a few days ago I called the dealer to see about an OEM TEV and they said something that made me feel a little bit better; the same part number superceded every application back to the '60s, and that they couldn't do that without engineering signing off on it.Still, I would feel a lot better if I could see something written officially that compared the flow characteristics and performance of r12 and 134a TEVs are concluded that they were interchangeable in automotive applications.If someone knows of such a document I would sleep much better!Walt Edited: Mon September 12, 2005 at 8:13 PM by wamcneil. R134a refrigerant fittings are different size. Trinary Pressure Switch $ 39.99. Minor adjustments to the expansion valve and other controls may be necessary for some plans. This means that it has a high potential of causing depletion to the ozone layer. Expansion Valves Catalog E-1, July 2012. We sometimes use a relay switched from the compressor clutch to run fans. R12 is otherwise called dichlorodifluoromethane is a colorless gas (chlorofluorocarbon halomethane (CPC) that is used as an aerosol spray propellant and a refrigerant, and is soluble in organic solvents. I've got a ball valve I'm going to put in the coolant line before the coolant goes through the firewall to the core. R1234yf. Is that reasonable?Vent airflow is good, I think. Lets take you through the advantages, disadvantages, and differences of these two refrigerants a detailed comparison including R12 vs R134a performance. For those of you who are considering what the cost is for R12 you can think of it this way: Dont go out to dinner this weekend. What is the refrigerant property involved that has caused this? R134a. This works when the R12 charge specification is listed in pounds. But, if your car lacks enough condenser and you have many 100+ degree days then you may want to stick either increase air flow, add another condenser as we mentioned in The Mr. Ice Project or stick with R12. Boiling Point: R134a refrigerants boiling point is -26.3C (-15.34F). We are an automotive mechanic blog that helps mechanics and car users to find the most recent and accurate technical and repair information for their cars. Yep, definately not a meat locker. How about evacing 1 pound of refrig from the system, and then putting 1 lb of pure R12 back in? This can be very very expensive. Paul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. J.Harris said: Or if you want to do it like they do in Mexico you can use propane, it's an excellent refrigerant but highly flammable.
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